The Great Gig Debate

Gary Blanchard

Gary Blanchard

beloved, local musician
Right now the Western MA Craigslist is ablaze with a debate about clubs and cafes that want performers but don't want to pay. Needless to say, there is name-calling and finger-pointing from all sides on this issue. There are those who are calling for a boycott of these places and those who feel this is a great starting point for emerging performers to build a following. WHere do you guys come in on this issue?
 
It's all about selling beer. Call us musicians - call us guitar players - call us a band - in the end we are just beer salesmen.
 
If a club or cafe offers up a stage and musicians feel like playing there for free, I have no problem with it. It isn't like anyone is forcing bands to play these places.
 
Supply and demand, you're never going to change it.

I've made a conscious decision that I won't do pay to play, "exposure" / "showcase" / "trial run" etc... gigs.

I used to do gigs at a bar for a few free drinks on a Thursday night pretty much because it was fun, me and my buds could make a night out of it and the girl who ran it was cool so I don't have a problem with it if all sides are being cool but I cannot stomach city centre bars with huge turnovers lowballing cover bands or going for crappy originals bands who will take whatever gigs they can get.

I suppose it limits the amount of gigs I can do but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not that desperate to play out these days.
 
My experiences as a solo artist, especially one playing folk music, is that I am not gonna get paid too often at this point. I do food and tips gigs and a freebie for a church group or charity here and there. I am starting to get more paying gigs as people begin to see that I have a track reocrd.

The main arguement I see being made is that bands who are willing to work for drinks and tips are undermining the ability of "professional" bands to get paying gigs. I am not sure that I agree with that.
 
I've done some freebies, but they are mostly for charities or benefits of some sort.

I've done the 'play for the door' thing and sometimes that works out well and other times you end up owing the bar money by the time you pay your tab at the end of the night. I try not to do that type of gig anymore unless there's a "$300 or the door, whichever is more" type of setup.
 
It's funny. Those debates seem to pop up in every city I've been.

I'm playing a free show this weekend with my new band. But it's our first show, and it's a private party for a friend of the band. So... it's an exception.

I like to get paid to play, but it's not really required if the situation is right.
 
Gary Blanchard said:
My experiences as a solo artist, especially one playing folk music, is that I am not gonna get paid too often at this point. I do food and tips gigs and a freebie for a church group or charity here and there. I am starting to get more paying gigs as people begin to see that I have a track reocrd.

The main arguement I see being made is that bands who are willing to work for drinks and tips are undermining the ability of "professional" bands to get paying gigs. I am not sure that I agree with that.
Click to expand...

Yeah I wouldn't agree with it either especially for originals bands.

In my neck of the woods you have a few options.

The absolute shithole "bars" / events that only the worst of the worst originals bands will play

The "proper" gigging venues that can pick and choose better originals bands but still have them play for free or do a pay as you play type deal.

Cover band bars where all of the music comes from cover bands or open mics.

Upmarket gigs like weddings and corp.


There's not a whole lot of overlap in any of them except the first 2 and that's really a case of too many bands and not enough venues as opposed to bands undermining the pay. If you're a good enough cover band, you'll get work in the cover band rooms, if you're a good enough function band, you'll get the high dollar gigs.

I know my brother isn't sitting worryng about his wedding and corp band that play in castles, 5 star hotels and state ballrooms every weekend losing a gig because geech and the shrimp shack shooters are playing for free at the local dive.
 
It really depends on the gig. Most of the time I need to be compensated properly for my time...I'm providing a service and if they don't want to pay then I don't have to play. No big deal...they'll find someone else who will play for free I'm sure. And if they really want me then they'll pay.

The opposite side of the coin is if I had product to sell and I was trying to get the word out...I might do a few free shows and hopefully benefit through merchandise sales and exposure.
 
Prages said:
I've done some freebies, but they are mostly for charities or benefits of some sort.

I've done the 'play for the door' thing and sometimes that works out well and other times you end up owing the bar money by the time you pay your tab at the end of the night. I try not to do that type of gig anymore unless there's a "$300 or the door, whichever is more" type of setup.
Click to expand...

I generally have played for the door about 95% of the time. There is very little chance we can get a $300 guarantee for the kind of stuff we do but at least we get to do whatever the hell we want.
 
We do free shows if they are for a festival or something like that. We are doing a freebee this Sunday (People Fair) but they provide the sound system. We did do a 'door' show a couple of weeks ago, but won't make a habit out of that unless we get a better following than we have now. If we provide the sound system we absolutely will not play for free, and usually it is a $350.00 minimum charge - and that is barely worth our time with the setup/tear down time and hassle.

Unless you are a very well established band with a significant local following, no rock clubs will pay much more than your split of the cover charge. Country bars pay much better here (usually $400.00 per night and usually a two night gig) which is one of the reasons we play country. But none of them are hiring new bands right now.

The solo acoustic thing is really hard to get any pay out of unless you want to do the restaurant thing, and even then they usually want a duo. I have never tried to do that for money here and I'm not sure whether anyone makes any cash for that short of being a known recording artist.
 
If they don't pay, they will get less talented acts, or the talented ones just starting off and looking for a quick gig will eventually want to start charging.

The bar could get lucky and find guys who just want to play, but must likely it won't last for long. You get what you pay for, and how hard is it to charge $3-$5 cover and give it to the band?
 
Here I just saw this on craigslist:

OPEN MIC TONIGHT @ BLUE STEM ( BRAND NEW!!) (Irving and Damen)
Date: 2010-06-02, 1:embarrassed:2PM CDT
Reply to: comm-cwdqu-1771670774@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

Come on out tonight for a brand new open mic @ Blue Stem Martini Lounge.

Great venue and AMAZING martinis!!!

Blue Stem Martini Lounge
1935 W Irving Park Road

Sign up is at 9 pm.

(2 Drink Minimum)

* Location: Irving and Damen
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

image 1771670774-0

Sounds great, show up and play for free with a two drink minimum (martinis are $14 apiece in this dump)

I have half a mind to go there tonight and scream "Open Mic? More like Fuckfest 2010! You can all get fucked, real fucked."

But the Hawks game is on and that is more important to me. :cheese:
 
wtf is a 2 drink minimum?

Like they actually force you to buy 2 drinks?

"Uh yeah buddy I see you only ordered one beer there so you're goign to have to put another away before we let you out the door"
 
It is nice to see a real conversation about this issue rather than the shit-slinging on Craigslist. :grin:

Some good points being made. I like Mark's point, which sums up where I'm at, about having product to sell. Most gigs I get fairly good tips and usually sell a number of CDs. I have sold three CDs at Cakettes in advance of my upcoming gig; folks who cannot come but thought they would like the music. Right now I think Cakettes and I have a set-up that offers benefits to each other. If I had to haul tons of equiptment and had several people who needed to be paid I could not do what I do. I agree with DKH that I'd rather play music I like for next to nothing than to play the latest covers for money. (Could you imagine me covering John Mayer and Lady Ga Ga?:grin:)

I am glad that Dave pointed out that it is hard for solo acoustic acts to get paid anywhere. This is what I need to remember as I read these debates; the people posting are rock bands with higher overhead and a larger investment on equiptment. What they need to realize is that other people may not think they are as great as they think they are. :thu:
 
Club owners have been screwing bands over for ever.
I once grabbed a pool cue and threatened to bust up the lights over the pool tables if we didn't get paid what we were promised.
My bandmates carried me outta there before the bouncers killed me.
Never played there again.
:facepalm:
 
micwalt said:
Club owners have been screwing bands over for ever.
I once grabbed a pool cue and threatened to bust up the lights over the pool tables if we didn't get paid what we were promised.
My bandmates carried me outta there before the bouncers killed me.
Never played there again.
:facepalm:
Click to expand...

Been there, done that too. :embarrassed:
 
jbj said:
wtf is a 2 drink minimum?

Like they actually force you to buy 2 drinks?

"Uh yeah buddy I see you only ordered one beer there so you're goign to have to put another away before we let you out the door"
Click to expand...

That's exactly what it is, you have to buy two drinks and from reading the reviews of this place it is not my kind of place. I don't play open mics but I would definitely not go there for any reason. The "chic" martini bar scene is not my thing.

Another reason I don't play open mics is that I figure instead of going somewhere and waiting around to play a three song acoustic set for nothing I can easily pick up the phone and book a full band gig. We'd still probably get paid next to nothing but at least we'd get to play for at least an hour on a stage with a pro PA and monitors.
 
micwalt said:
Club owners have been screwing bands over for ever.
I once grabbed a pool cue and threatened to bust up the lights over the pool tables if we didn't get paid what we were promised.
My bandmates carried me outta there before the bouncers killed me.
Never played there again.
:facepalm:
Click to expand...

Truth....

Club owners will use any excuse to not pay the band. One of our rules - no band tab. You eat or drink it - you pay for it. That way it is not hung over our head come pay time ("Well, we owe you $250.00 for the night, but the band beer tab is over $200.00 - so lets call it even...."). One of the clubs we play will allow one free drink per set per band member for the first three sets (cheap stuff only). I always stick to cola or just water - just in case....
 
Gary Blanchard said:
It is nice to see a real conversation about this issue rather than the shit-slinging on Craigslist. :grin:

Some good points being made. I like Mark's point, which sums up where I'm at, about having product to sell. Most gigs I get fairly good tips and usually sell a number of CDs. I have sold three CDs at Cakettes in advance of my upcoming gig; folks who cannot come but thought they would like the music. Right now I think Cakettes and I have a set-up that offers benefits to each other. If I had to haul tons of equiptment and had several people who needed to be paid I could not do what I do. I agree with DKH that I'd rather play music I like for next to nothing than to play the latest covers for money. (Could you imagine me covering John Mayer and Lady Ga Ga?:grin:)

I am glad that Dave pointed out that it is hard for solo acoustic acts to get paid anywhere. This is what I need to remember as I read these debates; the people posting are rock bands with higher overhead and a larger investment on equiptment. What they need to realize is that other people may not think they are as great as they think they are. :thu:
Click to expand...

To be honest, I'm a bit more understanding now that I also have to pay a commercial lease myself. I also look at people doing things for me here as vendors who need to be compensated, though.

Denverdave said:
One of our rules - no band tab. You eat or drink it - you pay for it..
Click to expand...

I've always worked that way. One thing that would always happen to us are "mystery drinks" that would somehow end up on our tab and you know none of the guys in your band ordered a round of Apple-tinis" or some shit like that during the night. The "no band tab" rule allowed us to tell bartenders to get fucked if they tried to pin one of their "dine and dash" tickets on us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top