Rumormongering. Fender going to change the CV Squiers to Fender and raise prices?

Tiltsta said:
yeah, I've seen this many times. I never quite got it, and attributed it to people who have a vision of places like Indonesia, China, Korea, and Malaysia as people living in a grass hut making guitars with a machete. Reality is very different, as anyone who has traveled in asia can tell you. Fender and other companies build there as they have better access to wood (legally and price wise), fewer restrictions on manufacturing, and a lower wage work force. It is just cheaper to make guitars there, and it ads to the profit margin, or allows you to hit a lower price point. The companies in these countries build to a set dollar target, so they add automation or less QC, or cheaper parts to hit the target...along with cheaper labor and massive scale of production savings. It is ridiculous to think, like many people do, that the people in these places can't build a guitar on par with any custom shop in the world, if they were allowed to spec a guitar for over a grand. I often wonder if these people who shit on Indonesian guitars have ever seen the skyline of Jakarta, or any of the massive cities in the countries they think are full of grass huts. The whole thing has a tinge of racial overtones that I don't want to get into, but it is just silly.
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QFT
 
Tiltsta said:
yeah, I've seen this many times. I never quite got it, and attributed it to people who have a vision of places like Indonesia, China, Korea, and Malaysia as people living in a grass hut making guitars with a machete. Reality is very different, as anyone who has traveled in asia can tell you. Fender and other companies build there as they have better access to wood (legally and price wise), fewer restrictions on manufacturing, and a lower wage work force. It is just cheaper to make guitars there, and it ads to the profit margin, or allows you to hit a lower price point. The companies in these countries build to a set dollar target, so they add automation or less QC, or cheaper parts to hit the target...along with cheaper labor and massive scale of production savings. It is ridiculous to think, like many people do, that the people in these places can't build a guitar on par with any custom shop in the world, if they were allowed to spec a guitar for over a grand. I often wonder if these people who shit on Indonesian guitars have ever seen the skyline of Jakarta, or any of the massive cities in the countries they think are full of grass huts. The whole thing has a tinge of racial overtones that I don't want to get into, but it is just silly.
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Case in point:

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This allows Suhr to make $1000 guitars and not sacrifice their core values.
 
Mark Wein said:
I also remember the first year or so of Squire guitars built in Japan that were superior to their American counterparts.
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My '89 50s HRR strat was MIJ and there were more than a few people said derogatory things about where it was made after I bought it even though it was hands down a stunning guitar.

Course people say all sorts of negative stuff about MIC guitars today while Eastman, Hofner and Suhr are getting some great guitars built there. You can make crappy products anywhere in the world just like you can make decent products anywhere in the world....it's about about what you want out coming out the end of the line.
 
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k4df4l said:
My '89 50s HRR strat was MIJ and there were more than a few people said derogatory things about where it was made after I bought it even though it was hands down a stunning guitar.
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One ofmy best friends ahs a first year Squier and I have a student with one too right now and they are great instruments. Both have replaced the pickups but the actual guitar itself is rad.
 
Mark Wein said:
Case in point:

066aaf27.jpg



This allows Suhr to make $1000 guitars and not sacrifice their core values.
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Sure (or Suhr, lol), and you look at what they have. Fewer paint options, fewer spec differences, fewer models, and so on, such that Suhr can make several spec bodies/necks and get that economy of scale and cheaper labor, and still maintain the quality. In the case of Suhr, they inspect and qc in their US facility, so there is a bit more oversight and such, but I suspect the big difference is that John Suhr asked 'How much would it cost to build a great guitar like this', and other companies ask 'how cheap can you make this guitar'. In the end, you get very different products.
 
Tiltsta said:
but I suspect the big difference is that John Suhr asked 'How much would it cost to build a great guitar like this', and other companies ask 'how cheap can you make this guitar'. In the end, you get very different products.
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I think that this is (as Howie and Mr Zappa would put it) the "crux of the biscuit".
 
Mark Wein said:
I think that this is (as Howie and Mr Zappa would put it) the "crux of the biscuit".
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I once got an NIH grant review that used this line. I knew right away it was reviewed by my friend Brett. I laughed out loud about it.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
would anybody actually care if the MIM Standard line went away and was replaced by the CV line? i'm not so sure.
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I would. I do really like my CV Tele, but my MIM Strat is nicer in some respects, particularly the finish on the neck, and the switch being nicer. And just in general feel. Kinda like Mark was talking about the Suhr. But I think my MIM 60th guitar is a step above the other regular standards I played in the stores during that same time. I think they should make all the MIM's like they make the special editions, which seem, based on my limited experience, to be that much nicer.

This is not to say that the good people in Asia cannot make a really nice guitar. I am sure they can and do. And the CV's are pretty darned nice for the price. A couple of tweeks in there production could make the Mexican plant vulnerable.
 
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I don't care if it's MIM, MIJ, MII, MIC, MIA, or MISPNAL as I can get my Lake Placid Blue + Maple board.


---
- Sent from my iPhone at a Tijuana donkey show.
 
Fender already kind of did it with their new $399 MIC Modern Player Tele, ferinstance...
 
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Mark Wein said:
I also remember the first year or so of Squire guitars built in Japan that were superior to their American counterparts.
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Yes they were. I had an '84 Squier Strat. I bought it because of my uncle's recommendation. As a longtime player and gigger, he told me that in his opinion, they were better guitars, than the MIA Strats and Teles being made at the time.

Regarding this latest rumor - it's possible. After all, many claims have been made that the Squier Pro-Tone, and Vista series guitars were killed, because they were cutting too much into the sales of Fender's other guitar lines.
 
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Kerouac said:
I heard Peeker fucked a sheep...
Wong kinda rumor? :embarrassed:
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Lol, that represents my take on it too. Id rather have a no-name excellent guitar that some name-branded crap. The WORST guitar I ever owned was the Gibson V2 (considered great by many, but certainly not me). I traded it for a Teac Porta-1 and got 10 years of every day use from that box - I even ran the TV sound through it mixed with a guitar wire from time to time.
 
Tiltsta said:
Sure (or Suhr, lol), and you look at what they have. Fewer paint options, fewer spec differences, fewer models, and so on, such that Suhr can make several spec bodies/necks and get that economy of scale and cheaper labor, and still maintain the quality. In the case of Suhr, they inspect and qc in their US facility, so there is a bit more oversight and such, but I suspect the big difference is that John Suhr asked 'How much would it cost to build a great guitar like this', and other companies ask 'how cheap can you make this guitar'. In the end, you get very different products.
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Mark Wein said:
I think that this is (as Howie and Mr Zappa would put it) the "crux of the biscuit".
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Soooo sad. Why not ask how good a guitar can be made? How many features it could have? How might it be used by people who aren't pro musicitians (the majority of guitar players, me included). THAT's why I still got the best guitar and if I ever do get a Fender guitar it would be cause its a good deal - used. I've played them pleanty of times too - in stores, from friends. Some of the engineers I've worked with collecting antique strats and SHOWING them to me as though they're purpose was to look like an antique rather than produce more/better sounds... advertizing replaced common sense long ago (imho obviously)... that's been the shocker for me. The concept that some of the greatest engineers I've known have worshiped old strats... my impression was they were chasing possessions/status symbols, not better sounds and better guitars.
 
Some Fender stats are great guitars. Eric Johnson, Jeff Beck, Clapton, SRV, Hendrix, and John Frusciante all seem to have thought so.
 
Why would Fender do this, unless it was to charge more for them, in which case, it puts them within range of MIM standards, Baja's, etc. I picked up a new CV Tele for $260. Had it been $500, I would have considered other Fenders.

Also, in order to do this, they would have to incorporate some significant changes, otherwise they would generate a huge market in Fender logo decals.
 
I guess they think some folks won't buy a Squire no matter how good it is, but if you take the Squire label off and put on a Fender label those same folks would then buy it and maybe pay a couple of hundred more for it. I dig my CV Duo Sonic and after adding the Filtertrons to it, it kicks all kinds of ass.
 
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