*** SPOILER WARNING - Man of Steel - YOU'VE BEEN WARNED *** discussion

baimun

baimun

Funkasaurus Rex
Okay... we have the other non-spoiler thread.


This one is for those who have seen the movie... Honestly, I don't even want people who normally don't care about a movie being spoiled... wait until you see it before you read this thread. Thank you.








Okay...











... last warning....









BEGIN:



The thing that bugged me about this movie was how grim the whole thing is. I've always taken Superman to be this "Beacon of Hope" kind of character that when everyone else is just saying "fuck it... nuke 'em from orbit" he's right in there like a big red and blue superhero flag.

This Kal-El is a basket of nerosis and repression. I had a hard time feeling the love and joy that his parents raised him with that makes him ultimately love this planet and all of it's feeble inhabitants enough to become the planet's protector. It was all about being an outcast and Jonathan making him hide those secrets even if it cost other people their lives, and ultimately his own. That was kinda lame considering the chaos of wind and tornadoes and such... clark could have saved him (and the dog) and nobody would have even known what had even happened.

I dug Zod's character and Lois as well. Both had purpose, intelligence, and were not cardboard cut outs like any of the previous variations on the character. Zod being biologically engineered to protect his race at all costs (and then see the Naturally-birthed Kal-El as an abomination) is compelling and interesting.

Which leads me to THE moment. The single 5 seconds of the movie that kept me from loving the rest of the action.


Superman and Zod have been going toe to toe... causing billions of dollars of collateral damage... and who knows how many unintended casualties and injuries as the fly through (and knock over) buildings. And it comes to Zod trying to fry one family and Superman decides "Okay... NOW you're just out of hand." He doesn't even beg Zod to see humans as a race worth co-existing with or anything.... just "SNAP".... AAAgghhhh...... He breaks Zod's fucking neck and kills him? :messedup: Seriously? He's fucking Superman and he kills his opponent? We're not talking about Wolverine... or even Batman who tries not to kill his opponents... just break their fucking legs.

Even though he was obviously distraught over the choice of killing his opponent.... he basically decided to kill the (possibly) only other survivor of his home planet. It's just so out of character that it really was the worm in the apple for me.

Anyone else?
 
I disagree. I don't think he was repressed. I think he was restrained. I don't think he was neurotic, in fact I think his behavior was elevated compared to most of the humans he encountered like the guy in the bar, the kids in school, etc.

Tornado scene was a little lame, but it serves a purpose. It was predictable and had to happen. Same thing with Spider Man and his old man getting killed because of Spider man's actions. Those scenes are trying to depict reasons for future behavior.

I didn't hear Zod being biologically engineered, I thought he was he was born to defend planet Krypton. I took that in a metaphorical sense.

I disagree with Superman deciding to kill Zod at the end. I believe he was trying to kill Zod after Zod went after Superman's mother. I don't care that Superman killed his opponent. What good is all that superhuman ability if he can't protect people with lethal violence? And again, he killed him as it came down to killing Zod, who wanted to annihilate the human race and who was trying to lazer beam/kill innocent bystanders, or not. He chose to kill Zod. Good job.

I found this moving refreshing. I thought the action was great, the writing crisp and the pacing great. I have no interest in a retelling of the same old same old superman over and over. I appreciated the different approach and thought the movie was badass.
 
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I'm taking the biologically engineered thing from the combination of the caste system that they seemed to have in place where Kryptonians were bred into their social structure (Jor-El voice over) and the comment from Feora something about being evolved past the human emotions.

I just don't recall any time in the 75 year history of Superman where he killed anyone... otherwise he could have splatted Luthor with one hand.

EDIT:

And apparently, I'm not the only one who finds this completely out of character.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/06/15/man-of-steel-superman-zod-death/
 
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I don't have much interest in the 75 years of Superman. I'm not a comic book guy. I can appreciate people's loyalty to the original item. I read Tom Clancy's Hunt for Red October a long time ago. I was disappointed in the end as it varied significantly from the book, but I still enjoyed the movie.

I can appreciate that some people want a movie or story or item to remain pure to it's original incarnation. That's fine. But if they are going to make 5 movies about a given thing, I don't want those 5 items to be exact replica's. I want evolutionary stuff, otherwise, why attend any movie beyond the first?

I liked Superman's attitude and progression as a sentient being. His father warns him against violence. He holds back for most of his life. Finally, when there's a threat to his mother and a threat to the world he reacts, appropriately in my opinion, with lethal violence.

As with all things, there are levels and layers. Remember the movie Goodbye Girl with Richard Dreyfuss who's playing an actor, and he's doing Shakespeare and he's protraying his character as a gay man with a club foot a the director's insistence. Clearly, that's an evolution that was taken too far.

I found this movie refreshing. I found Superman noble and caring and strong and human.
 
baimun said:
Superman and Zod have been going toe to toe... causing billions of dollars of collateral damage... and who knows how many unintended casualties and injuries as the fly through (and knock over) buildings. And it comes to Zod trying to fry one family and Superman decides "Okay... NOW you're just out of hand." He doesn't even beg Zod to see humans as a race worth co-existing with or anything.... just "SNAP".... AAAgghhhh...... He breaks Zod's fucking neck and kills him? :messedup: Seriously? He's fucking Superman and he kills his opponent? We're not talking about Wolverine... or even Batman who tries not to kill his opponents... just break their fucking legs.

Even though he was obviously distraught over the choice of killing his opponent.... he basically decided to kill the (possibly) only other survivor of his home planet. It's just so out of character that it really was the worm in the apple for me.

Anyone else?
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I didn't see the movie as dark. Superman does pitch to Zod the idea that they can co-exist. Zod, unconditionally refutes that, and says he was born to protect Krypton at all costs and makes it clear that he will continue to do that at all costs. Zod makes it crystal clear that he will wipe out mankind.

So when Zod is trying to kill that lone family, Superman has an epiphany that Zod will not be persuaded nor dissuaded. Zod's unbending intent results in his destruction.

This is a tremendous sacrifice for Superman. He has a choice between the people from his planet at the cost of mankind, or he can choose to save mankind.

At this point, there is more hope in the human race, than in Krypton's, and there's hope to not repeat the mistake of Krypton.
 
It was terrible. As terrible as "White House Down" is going to be. I am so goddamned sick of every goddamned superhero movie being the the next best thing and then it isn't.

The effects are cool, but there's no stake in it.

Bleh. Let's start making movies that are original.
 
I dug the portrayal of Superman. I think the rose colored version of him is too outdated. I am with you though on the Zod ending. Which is kid of backwards seeing as I like the not perfect Superman but I think him just snapping Zod's neck was too far out of character. I liked Lois much better than the old flicks and the direction of this Zod was pretty cool.
 
I liked the movie. Was it the best superhero movie ever? No, not by a long shot but it was entertaining. I liked the story even though the beginning part on Krypton was a little much for me. I felt like someone had a little too much fun with the CGI and it was a little over the top. The scene where his old man died was pretty bad. I also thought the action scenes were a little hard to follow at times. It reminded me of the Transformer movies where there was just too much going on.
 
Saw it this weekend and didn't love it, didn't hate it. One thing that killed it for me was Laurence Fishburne as Perry White with his diamond stud earring. He looked bored. I don't know why, but having the earring bugged me for some reason. Not against anyone with pierced ears, I used to wear one back years ago.
 
I actually thought it was really well done. It dosn't bother me that they took a little artistic license with the characters. I don't think that he wanted to kill Zod just that he realized there was no other option. Back in the day he was a bit too perfect, I rather enjoy a more human acting superman and not the squeaky clean classic Superman.
 
VoidTerraFirma said:
I've never really cared for Superman.

I've always preferred Marvel Comics. Still do.
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I'm the opposite. I always preferred the DC comics. The Marvel comics were like soap operas to me; too much angst and never-ending plot lines. Of course, I gave up on comic books years ago. After about 1967 they just held no interest to me.
 
I just saw it tonight and liked it overall. I did not have a problem with Superman killing Zod in the end. If I had a problem with his behavior it was when he messed that guy's truck up. I thought that was just a little too trite, and out of character at that point. I liked that he had to "find himself" or find his confidence that it was the right time. And I liked that while he did that as a young man he was "grunge Superman" replete with a beard and flannel, and working on a crabbing boat. They even included a Chris Cornell song in that part. I liked that a lot.

Since the Jesus parallels have been raised, I thought the time where he had to be essentially exiled was similar to the 40 days and 40 nights that Biblical accounts portray Jesus as experiencing prior to making his stand. I can't help but think that the writers borrowed a little here, either consciously or unconsciously.

About the only thing I really didn't like was the overuse of the computer generated effects where they had to break down two or three buildings every time Zod and Superman traded a punch. That was overdone to me. But I generally think that about effects.

Overall, I liked it quite well.

Alex W said:
I actually thought it was really well done. It dosn't bother me that they took a little artistic license with the characters. I don't think that he wanted to kill Zod just that he realized there was no other option. Back in the day he was a bit too perfect, I rather enjoy a more human acting superman and not the squeaky clean classic Superman.
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This too. The original comic book characters were from a time when we believed that our military and war in general was a little more squeaky clean than we found out that it really was once the press started getting in a little deeper. I think the portrayals here were a little more realistic, if you can even use that word when talking about a superman movie, and better in any case.
 
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I also liked how his costume wasn't some underwear suit that his mom made him and rather that it was super old Kryptonian uniform.
 
Watched it this afternoon. Wow, I dont think ive ever seen a film with so much action. Special effects were all spectacular. I watched it for what it was, a new take on Superman. I think it worked extremely well. I look forward to the second part.
 
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