Need some help with soloing.

DejaVuudoo

Slightly-less-n00by than a few posts ago
Okay so I have a few questions. Probably stupid questions but when it comes to theory I know almost nothing. First are the notes involved in the guitar scales (example B blues scale: B, D, E, F, F#, A, B, D, E, F, F#, A, B, D) all the notes in the scale because I found a "Blues scale variation" that added in a few more that weren't surprising since I've seen them in blues licks. But what I want to know is are all the scales/modes like this, with extra notes around them? My next question kind of ties in with that, how come, for instance, Pentatonic minor scales and the different positions have different notes in them but sound the same? I find it hard to wrap my mind around moving the scales up and down the neck horizontally, I've seen Hendrix start from the 5th fret and walk right on past the 12th. Is memorizing every note on the neck necessary in order to do something like that? And is memorizing every note in the scale as well as the neck the only way to walk around the fretboard and jam with some blues? I know I'm probably over thinking this but I want to be a good guitarist who isn't just throwing around blues licks played the same way in different areas, I want to make sure I do it right.
 
well, I'm the LAST person to talk to about this, because I think most theory is crap.
play whatever sounds good to you.
and to hell with what anyone else thinks

I only really know the basic pentatonic, and a harmonic minor scale (which I use for metal stuff)

they've served me well so far, though I don't stick to them exclusively.
if an "off-key" note works, I'll use it.


so, really, music is about creating, right?
ain't no one can tell me how to paint a picture, and the same goes for my music.


but as for the actual technical side, there's a ton, and I mean TON!, of really talented folks here who will help you out.

me, I just shrug, and play what's in my wonky head

welcome aboard, btw :)
 
Thank you :)
And I agree whole heartedly with you but I want to have a good grasp of the pentatonics and blues scales. Not to lean on but to refer to mostly, I'm trying to widen my solo phrasing because as it is now I feel like it sounds really generic. My favorite guitarist is Jimi Hendrix, whole reason I picked up a guitar so I want to capture his sound mostly and then mix in my own madness.
 
I'm out with my family right now by of no ones helped out by the time I
Get home I'll give you some help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
speaking of really talented folks, that was one right there.
there's a lot of good people here.
and despite what folks might say about me *glares at EG* , I'm one of them :wink:
just a tad kookier than most.

give it an our, and I bet you'll have lotsa folks offering great advice.

I've been to a few guitar sites around the net, and this is now the only one I come to.
unless I'm fantasy shopping, of course :wink:

Mark there, (Mr Owner), and his Mod Squad are awesome at squashing douchebaggery, so folks here are pretty mellow, and very nice.
except me, I'm now the town drunk
but I'm a cuddly one :wink:

mostly.

I'm kinda the black sheep here too, as I'm the only really serious lover of stupidly shaped guitars.

BC Rich was made for me, y'unnerstand...

and some folks here consider an SG to be pointy.

they are wrong. :grin:

just for poops'n'snickers, here's that harmonic minor thing I use
I cannot tab stuff out, so I'm just gonna give you frets, starting on the 6th (E) at the 12th fret
12 14 15
12 14 15
14 15
11 12 14
12 13 15
12 14 15

it's a nice bit
 
Okay so I have a few questions. Probably stupid questions but when it comes to theory I know almost nothing. First are the notes involved in the guitar scales (example B blues scale: B, D, E, F, F#, A, B, D, E, F, F#, A, B, D) all the notes in the scale because I found a "Blues scale variation" that added in a few more that weren't surprising since I've seen them in blues licks. But what I want to know is are all the scales/modes like this, with extra notes around them? My next question kind of ties in with that, how come, for instance, Pentatonic minor scales and the different positions have different notes in them but sound the same? I find it hard to wrap my mind around moving the scales up and down the neck horizontally, I've seen Hendrix start from the 5th fret and walk right on past the 12th. Is memorizing every note on the neck necessary in order to do something like that? And is memorizing every note in the scale as well as the neck the only way to walk around the fretboard and jam with some blues? I know I'm probably over thinking this but I want to be a good guitarist who isn't just throwing around blues licks played the same way in different areas, I want to make sure I do it right.

Welcome! :Wave:

The way I try and look at this is that there really is only ONE scale..the chromatic scale. That consists of all 12 notes that are available. The 7 note Major scale which is a subset of the chromatic scale is the foundation of all Western music.

The Blues scale is a 6 note scale as you've described..but here's the thing...the vast majority of people playing in the blues/rock genres will almost always use a combination of pentatonic minor/major, blues scale and select other notes from the Major or minor scale (forget about modes for now!) all in the same solo! ...this "super-scale" looks something like this in A:

A B C C# D D# E F# G G#

Bear in mind that in blues, the underlying chords are nearly always dominant, i.e. A7/D7/E7..NOT regular major chords. This allows you to create more "flavours" than a regular Major or minor chord might.

Over a typical blues/rock tune played by Hendrix or Page or SRV..you'll often hear ALL those notes..some of them only as very quick "passing notes" like the Maj7 (G#), some of them more often...bending from the min3 (C) to the Maj3 (C#) is a VERY common blues move (particularly if you don't actually get to C#!..just head in that direction!). Note that the two notes missing there are the min9 (Bb) and the min6 (F) and the reason for that is that I find that the min9 (Bb) works in a jazzier blues context as a passing tone, and the min6 (F) is really integral to a minor blues/rock progression..think Zep's "Since I've Been Loving You" .. ..however, YOU should try them!, you may be able to make them work!

Now, playing that "superscale" one note at a time isn't going to sound very musical!..your main framework for the blues is still going to be the 6 note Blues scale...with the other notes added in for flavour. Listen and learn a ton of solo's that you like and things will become clearer to you!.

I'm not sure that I've understood your second question correctly..Mark has some really good lessons on pentatonics that I'm sure he'll point you to. There are five positions for the minor pentatonic scale and you do need to learn them all and be able to navigate from one to the other in order not to get locked into a "box".

I think it is important to learn every note on the guitar regardless of what genre you're playing. Ultimately, it's good to play what you hear in your head and immediately play it on the guitar, and you'll need to know your way round the fretboard to do that.

BTW Peeker :)..you'd need the "B" string notes to be 12, 13, 16..for the harmonic minor :wink:
 
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OK, now you guys got me confused with this 6th string 1st string terminology... Here is how I play A harmonic minor at one position...

E 4 5 7 8
B 5 6
G 4 5 7
D 6 7
A 5 7 8
E 5 7 8

Regular A minor...

E 5 7 8
B 5 6 8
G 4 5 7
D 5 7
A 5 7 8
E 5 7 8

A minor pentatonic...

E 5 8
B 5 8
G 5 7
D 5 7
A 5 7
E 5 8

Then, after that, I like chromatic...

E 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
B 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
G 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
D 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
E 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24


:)
 
Yeah, Peekers "diagram" was the other way round from what I'm used to, but I think I know what he was getting at. :embarrassed:
 
Mo's post was really good. I'll add that the Pentatonic scale is just five notes that repeat all over the place...if you learn where they are relative to the root then you can repeat small ideas or understand the layout of the fretboard a little better. Check these out:

\
CAGED System Primer - An introduction to Fretboard Theory

Minor Pentatonic Scale Phrasing Lesson #1

Minor Pentatonic Scale Phrasing Lesson #2

Minor Pentatonic Scale Phrasing Lesson #3

Minor Pentatonic Scale Phrasing Lesson #4


One String Minor Pentatonic Scales


Major Scale Lesson #1


Major Scale Lesson #2

you can find the whole series here: http://markweinguitarlessons.com/fo...rking-order-for-my-video-lessons-on-this-site
 
Thanks everyone for the help. It sure is frustrating, every time I feel like I'm learning and getting pretty decent I end up realizing that I hardly know a thing, haha. I've been very guilty of just meandering around the scale going up and down. Sometimes it just seems damn right impossible to play up and down my neck laterally. I wish I started six years ago when I was 16.
 
Thanks everyone for the help. It sure is frustrating, every time I feel like I'm learning and getting pretty decent I end up realizing that I hardly know a thing, haha. I've been very guilty of just meandering around the scale going up and down. Sometimes it just seems damn right impossible to play up and down my neck laterally. I wish I started six years ago when I was 16.

6 years from now, you will wish you had started when you were 22... And you wish will come true... It takes time, but you'll get there...
 
Thanks :grin:
Two more questions and then I'll leave you guys alone, for now :tongue:

I've only watched the CAGED and a single Pentatonic Phrasing lesson so far so if these questions are covered in the future then please excuse my lack of time at the moment.
1. Are there any useful tricks/tips I could use to help me learn my fret board?
2. In the CAGED lesson, how do you know what pattern to use to form the scales at those different positions, do you just have to know the notes in that scale?
 
Good stuff.. Being a minor pent wanker myself you guys answered a lot of questions for me in this thread and the lessons attached...
 
Thanks :grin:
Two more questions and then I'll leave you guys alone, for now :tongue:

I've only watched the CAGED and a single Pentatonic Phrasing lesson so far so if these questions are covered in the future then please excuse my lack of time at the moment.
1. Are there any useful tricks/tips I could use to help me learn my fret board?
2. In the CAGED lesson, how do you know what pattern to use to form the scales at those different positions, do you just have to know the notes in that scale?

I would work the caged root patterns for different notes a couple times a day...you'll start recognizing things after a few days. Also, try memorizing the notes on the 5th and 6th strings at each of the fret markers on your guitar.

As far as your second question, you can build the scales within each root pattern...thats once of the things we do in my SKype classes...
 
What helped me with learning the fingerboard was drawing out a diagram with all the notes, playing them all every day, and calling out the names of the notes as I played them. Calling out the note names helps internalise them I think. The second thing I did was more visual, which was to memorise the "shape" of intervals..octaves particularly which look like an inverted "L" as you look down on the neck from the normal playing position. Once you know what an octave looks like starting from any string..then you instantly know at least three notes if you start on the low E string!. So, if you start on G on the 3rd fret, low E string, you can instantly "see" another G on the D string, 5th fret and the B string 8th fret..and so on. Do this with all the intervals, find a "shape" that YOU recognise and it comes together pretty quickly. :thu:
 
While your head is spinning with all the stuff above, let me ease your mind a bit with the thought that there is no rule as to what notes are "right" or "wrong". It's more a matter of do you want the notes to blend together (harmony), be slightly outside the key (disonnance), or to purposefully clash (cacophany, some punk, some outside jazz).

When the chords are circling around there are certain "landing" notes and chords like the root or fifth of the chord. So you can play just about any little riff you want as long as the notes that land on the beat hit one of those landing notes. Even a tight rope walker is "off balance" when taking each step as long as the foot steps on the rope at the right time and "in balance". It can be a little outside to create tension and drama, but go too far outside and the tightrope walker falls.
 
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